Dealing with Self-Doubt – Episode 15

In this episode, Beth Cougler Blom talks about some of the ways we might experience self-doubt as designers and facilitators of learning and what to do about it. She reveals some of the ways self-doubt has crept up for her and shares some of the things she thinks about and does to deal with it.

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Podcast cover art by Emily Johnston of Artio Design Co.
Podcast production services by Mary Chan of Organized Sound Productions

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Show Transcript

[Upbeat music playing]

[Show intro]
Beth
Welcome, to Facilitating on Purpose, where we explore ideas together about designing and facilitating learning. Join me to get inspired on your journey to becoming and being a great facilitator wherever you work. I’m your host, Beth Cougler Blom.

Beth
Hello, welcome. Thank you so much for being here. This is Episode 15, Dealing with Self-Doubt. I’m going to explore some of the top ways I think we might experience self-doubt as designers and facilitators of learning. I’m going to talk about how this has sometimes shown up for me, what I tend to do about it, and some of my recommendations for you. Now know that I’m not a counsellor. I’m not a psychologist. I can’t go into the reasons why we have self doubt. And I can’t give you clinical advice, of course, about what to do about it. I’m a person with my own business in this field, the business itself is coming up to its 12th year anniversary this summer in 2023. But I’ve been in the business of designing and facilitating learning for almost my whole career, more than 25 years now. So there are lots of things that I’ve experienced and seen other people experience around self-doubt and I’d like to share some of that with you.

As you listen to this episode, my invitation to you is to see what works for you. I have my own intersectionalities of course, my own privileges, my own experiences. So they might be very different from what you’ve experienced. At the same time, maybe something that has worked for me or something I’ve seen in others will work for you. This particular topic is really about you, and what you’re experiencing, and what you need, so I invite you to turn inward to yourself first, but also to turn to the people in your network that can support you to be able to deal with the things that I’m going to be talking about today. What I’m going to do is to name some of the ways I think we experienced self-doubt, and then give you some advice and some sharing of my own stories around each one of them.

So the first way that we can experience self-doubt is, of course, around lack of experience. We’ve got to start somewhere, we all start on this road of facilitating learning at some point, and we don’t have any experience when we first start. That’s just a natural thing, of course, because we have to start somewhere. And so the self-doubt comes in because we don’t have experience and then that makes us feel like we don’t have knowledge enough to be able to lead a group or to teach a subject. I can tell you I definitely felt this when I was younger. You know, there’s, I guess when you’re younger in your career, there’s always that those that time period where you’re the youngest person in the room, and that happens for a long, long time. And I had that for years, actually, [laughs] where I was the youngest person in the room. And so you don’t have any experience, and you’re kind of gaining it as you go. And maybe because of the lack of experience, you have this lack of confidence around that as well. So I definitely had that when I was earlier in my career. And that has grown for me with time because of course you gain experience and then you feel more confident about that, and so on. And so maybe some of it is the natural progression that we go through as we grow a career and it gets easier over time.

I think basically, there’s probably only one way to deal with this reason or cause for self-doubt, being lack of experience, that we just have to go out and get more experience. And there’s a risk taking involved in that. There’s a confidence, I guess, to start putting yourself out there. But there are ways that you can do that, that are a little bit more low stakes. You know, volunteering is one way. I spent a lot of time in my career actually working at a volunteer centre, leading their training program. I used to go out and speak about volunteering for work experience. So if you want to facilitate, volunteering can be a really great way to start facilitating because there are tons of nonprofits out there that want and need people to work with groups around some educational topic. So, volunteering is a super way to deal with and to try to gain your experience that you need in facilitation. Also you can engage with communities of practice around facilitation. There are groups here and there and maybe in your area where you can join them and attend and participate in other people’s sessions that they’re leading. And then eventually, over time, you might be the person that steps up and says I can facilitate something. And those are great places to practice facilitation because they’re with your colleagues and often the practicing is intentional and necessary so that everybody can learn more about the field. And so practice groups can be a great way to help you gain more experience because that’s actually why they’re created, so that we can all learn and keep growing in our journey of being facilitators.

Another super way to gain more experience in the field is to co-facilitate with someone who has more experience. And so the more, again it could be a volunteering kind of thing, the more you can connect with people who are just that much further ahead of you in the field, and support them and work with them and co-facilitate with them, you’re going to learn and gain experience as you do that. And then the confidence and the comfort in doing it yourself will hopefully come along with that as well.

You can also read and self-educate, of course, in this field. There are just many, many books and podcasts and articles and social media sites where people are talking about designing and facilitating learning. And maybe that’s why you found this one, Facilitating on Purpose. This is why I started the podcast, so that I could continue my own learning in the field and hopefully help other people at the same time, grow your own knowledge and your own practice in the field as well. So reading and self-educating always, is something I would recommend to myself [laughs] and to others, to gain more experience the experience that we want as the world changes around us, and we need to come along and keep learning about it.

Lastly, I’ll say that even if you don’t have a lot of experience doing facilitation, or being an instructor, or whatever you call yourself, I want you to recognize that in some ways, being new to the field can be an asset to your learners. Because if you know the concept of having a beginner’s mind, that is something that you probably have about the content or the topic that you’re teaching, because you are kind of new to teaching it. And so you are that much closer to your learners and what they think and the aha moments that they’re having about the topic because you’re actually not that much farther ahead of them. So it might be easier for you to put yourself in the mindset of a beginner’s mind, rather than the person that you might be working with or another facilitator who has more experience in the field. The more we become experts in our topic, the less easy it is to stay in that beginner’s mindset, which is really a useful thing for being able to connect with our learners. So you have that as someone who doesn’t have as much experience. So recognize that and just see the advantages within.

A second cause of self-doubt is around questioning our abilities. And some people call this impostor syndrome, or it’s very related to impostor syndrome. We can question our skills and abilities and then that means that we’re questioning whether we are worthy to lead a group or to teach a particular subject. I looked at the definition of imposter syndrome and it said, where we feel like we’re a fraud and we fear being exposed as such. So when we are questioning our abilities, we feel like a fraud, of course this leads to self-doubt, even when we’re actually qualified and capable. That’s the rub, I guess, around impostor syndrome, that we can still feel it, even though we have a lot of experience, we are qualified, and we are capable. I wish we didn’t have this, but we do, we have self-doubt. And sometimes, even though we’re very, very qualified and skilled, we still doubt ourselves and tell ourselves this negative story that we actually can’t do the thing. So what do we do about that?

I actually mentioned to someone the other day that I think becoming a mother helped me get over some of the self-doubt that I had earlier in my career and earlier in my life. When I had a child, when I became a mother, I maybe unconsciously realized that I can do hard things. And maybe that propelled me to be able to have more confidence in myself, just generally, and in my place in the world. Now, I’m not saying you need to become a parent, [laughs] to be able to develop your self confidence. I’m just saying, for me, I looked back and thought maybe when motherhood came along for me I was able to capitalize on that confidence and propel it into the other parts of my life. So there’s a confidence thing here, just in general, whether you’re a parent or not, to dig into that. As I said earlier, maybe confidence grows throughout our career. But if it isn’t, maybe that somewhere that you can find support around working with a coach or a mentor or talking about it with friends in the field. I find that when I connect with my friends who also do the same type of work that I do, and we can get really honest with each other about the hard things behind the scenes of the business, it really makes me feel better about those challenges that I have, because I realize everyone else has them too. And I might make the mistake of looking at them going, oh, well they have figured this all out and they don’t ever feel that way but they actually do. So the more you talk with people who do the work that you do, I think it’s going to be easier. You’re going to gain confidence I hope because you realize this is just something we all have to deal with and we all have to get over it in our own particular way. So connecting with either a professional, or friends in the field, might help you grow your confidence and that helps you deal with that impostor syndrome, or the questioning of your ability as you go.

I’ve noticed this hesitation in people around to their ability. It prevents them from stepping up to the plate. Specifically, I am part of a user group for Liberating Structures, where the whole reason why we have Liberating Structures User Groups, and if you’re not familiar with Liberating Structures, they are activities that we can use in meetings and learning events and there are worldwide communities using them and practicing them and so on. But I’ve noticed that in our particular user group, and if you are part of another one in another part of the world, I’d be curious to hear if this happens in your group that it is hard to get people to step up to the plate to do that kind of volunteering I talked about earlier. That people see skilled facilitators leading some of the sessions and then they tell themselves a story that they can’t do as good of a job as the skilled facilitators that have been doing this for years. But that’s why practice groups exist. That’s why user groups exist. We want people who are new to be able to step up and try things. And if there’s a failure in the training, that is actually part of the whole thing. And so I’m constantly wrestling with how we can get people to get over the hump or get over the barrier that they’re experiencing for themselves, to just say, nope, I’m going to sign up, and I’m going to try facilitating something, and I’m going to do it. That is a very big leap that I see people telling themselves that they can’t take. And if you’re feeling that about something right now maybe you can just make a plan for yourself to say yes to doing something like that, to practice a facilitation within a supportive community, like a Liberating Structures User Group, or wherever it is. So just notice that hesitation in yourself that you might be feeling and try not to let it prevent you from stepping up to the plate to actually do the thing that you probably are very good at doing and doing in your own skilled way.

If you really do have the abilities, but you’re still telling yourself that you don’t and you’re really struggling with impostor syndrome, there might be things that you can do to help tell yourself a different story. So pay attention to the thoughts that you’re having always around this work, and recognize them for what they are. Because we definitely can have unhelpful thoughts that prevent us from doing the work and then we can start telling ourselves a different story if we recognize that we’re having those negative or those unhelpful thoughts. Maybe you have a mantra that you say to yourself when you catch those negative thoughts arising, I have a kudos file that I keep on my computer for times when I maybe just need to recognize and remember that I have done a lot of good work. [chuckles] I don’t really look at it that often but I just keep it there as proof. It’s almost like a rainy day file. For those times when I might be feeling low, I might be doubting myself. And then I’ve got the kudos file that I can dip into and just remember that there’s a long history of experience in my background, and I can do good things and people have said nice things about me. And it’s there for me when I need it.

Now, sometimes I’ve noticed that I can doubt myself when I have a lot of abilities, but maybe the new thing that’s coming my way, it’s something I haven’t quite done in that way before. And so I sometimes can sit in that feeling of ooh, I don’t really know how to do this. And so the story I try to tell myself is that I may not know how to do this right now but I’m smart and I’m going to figure this out. And so again, it’s just about recognizing the thoughts that we’re having and trying to tell ourselves something that’s going to be more helpful to us being able to feel like we can do the work and then to do it.

Now, if you really don’t have the abilities, if this self-doubt is coming up, because you don’t have the ability or the skill in some area, then do all the things that I just talked about to self-educate. Because in this field of designing and facilitating learning, we can’t say that, Oh, we took a you know, in my case, I took a master’s degree in adult education. I can’t sit on that for the rest of my career and never self-educate and add into that. It’s just ongoing, ongoing work. And so just keep recognizing that self-education is a lifelong endeavour and set yourself some goals for this. It’s just a necessary part of probably all of our careers right now but particularly when we’re in the business of learning, then being intentional about being a lifelong learner in the field is something we just all have to do. If you’re curious to hear about how my family has thought about and talked about lifelong learning, then check out Episode 8 because my mom and my dad and my brother and I did a whole podcast episode about lifelong learning and how it has shown up for us in our family.

The last thing I’ll say about this self-doubt that’s related to ability is please don’t confuse the thought of I’m uncertain how to do this thing with I’m not qualified to do this thing. I’ve been thinking about this a lot recently and I’ve realized that when I have a feeling that is me telling myself I’m uncertain how to do this it’s actually a really good thing. These are the best kinds of projects for me! They’re the projects that excite me, that allow me to flex my creative muscles. So sitting in uncertainty about how to do something is really like where the juice comes from for me. I’m not telling myself the story that I’m not qualified to do this, because I am qualified to do the thing. But every new project that comes my way, maybe I haven’t done something particularly like that thing before so I’m trying to tell myself and just recognize that feeling uncertain about how to do something is very, very different than feeling unqualified to do the thing. So I’m qualified to do all sorts of things and I need to get over the uncertainty piece and that does happen as we start the project. And sometimes I have to talk about that with my team as well. It’s okay for us to say to ourselves, we don’t actually know how to do this thing right now. Because we have done all sorts of stuff like that before in other types of ways. And it’s just kind of the stew that’s happening on this particular project, we have to put it together. But uncertainty is very different from feeling not qualified. So recognize the difference in that for yourself. And I hope that helps you give yourself some more advice around uncertainty being just fine. Because you are a smart person, you have a way to get over that. And that’s a really exciting thing for our work, to flex our creative muscles, to bring certainty to an uncertain early feeling in a project.

Another way that we can feel self-doubt is when we compare ourselves against others. So this is when we look at other people and we think, Oh, they’ve got it all figured out. Or I wish I was more like them. So people put me on this quite a bit, I’ve found over the years, particularly the last few years after I published my book. So I have my own company doing design and facilitation of learning and consulting around that as well with clients. I’ve written a book, I’m really active on social media, talking about the things that my company does and what we know about. And now I have a podcast. And the really strange thing for me, particularly after I published the book, is that some people would then start to say to me, Oh, well, you’ve written the book in this so you’ve got it all figured out. You must never doubt yourself. You are so good at what you do, you’ve probably learned all the things. And honestly, it’s all I can do to just not laugh in these people’s faces. [laughs] Because it’s a pretty big leap to go from, you seem to be doing a good job at what you do, to you have figured it all out and must never feel doubt about anything. That’s a fallacy. Do you think that I never feel doubt about anything that I’m doing? Oh, my goodness! [laughs] I keep talking about failures and mistakes, and so on so I’m really surprised when people actually tell me this. But there’s something about, you know, people only seeing part of I guess what I do that they think, well, you must have figured it all out. No, none of us have. And that is a trap that we all can fall into when we look at only a partial picture of another person and put something on them that actually isn’t true. So we all have to check our thoughts when we watch people on social media. We all have to check our thoughts when we read other people’s books and just assume that they figured everything out.

If you read my book, I actually said in there in the beginning that I’m on [laughs] this lifelong journey about how to do this thing we call designing and facilitation better. And I always will be. And so when people say oh, you’ve figured it out because you’ve written a book they actually haven’t read [laughs] they actually haven’t read the book very closely. because I thought I was pretty clear in saying, I will never figure it out, I’m on this journey I always will be. And actually, that’s why the field is so exciting.

And so this thing about comparing ourselves to others, and just assuming they have it figured out, get that out of your head because it is so not true. We are all human. So when you’re looking at people on social media, just recognize that tendency to only show the shiny side and tell yourself that there are other things that that person or that company, whoever it is, is not showing you about their humanity and all of the challenges that they experience on a daily and weekly and monthly basis in their business. It is there even they aren’t necessarily talking about it. So I’ll give this advice to myself and, you know, it’s for you as well but when we ourselves post on social media, we need to try to reveal and tell the stories of mistakes and failures, because showing up this way helps us all learn and it helps us be real, that we are human beings doing this work. And both successes and challenges are part of it. And that’s what it is. I try to do this, and I’ll continue to keep doing it more.

Comparing ourselves against what others are doing, though, can actually be a motivating experience. I mean, there’s the shadow side of it that we can start feeling badly about what we’re doing when we compare ourselves too much with what someone else is doing. But looking at someone else who is being a success in their own work is actually motivating as well. So try to stay in the mode of looking at someone’s excellence as a motivating factor for you to just keep doing the best work that you can do, as opposed to doing harm to yourself with the comparison.

Another way we can feel self-doubt is I think, just due to general nervousness about doing the work, particularly around facilitation, because of course, it involves working with the group, with real people. And just feeling nervous about doing a good job is something that probably all of us always will have. I don’t know anyone that’s been doing this work for many, many years that eventually said, Oh, I never get nervous anymore. I don’t think that’s a thing. Nervousness is very normal. And I’ve said my book, and I’ll say again, that I think it just means that I care a lot when I get nervous about doing a good job for the people in the group. The nervousness for me doesn’t last very long into the start of a session, for example, but it definitely is with me before the session,as the session is starting and then I noticed that kind of dissipates and goes away as I get my feet under me with the particular group and start to feel like we’re all in this together and we’re doing a good job together. So we can combat nervousness just by sitting in our own excellence and doing the thing and recognizing that it will go away.

Now some things you can do to combat nervousness or trying to deal with it are some breathing techniques, sometimes I do some slow breathing before I start a session. I definitely do some visualization here and there, just thinking through working with the group and preparing and seeing it in my mind’s eye that it’s going well. So some sort of visualization just lightly has helped me. Romy Alexandra, in Episode 13 of this podcast, she talked about using a physical stance, or touch points on your body to help calm nerves and help you feel confident and ready for the session. So if you want to learn a little bit more about that you can listen to Episode 13, where Romy and I did some experimenting around experiential learning.

Somebody that’s coming up on the podcast in the next couple of months, Johnnie Moore is a facilitator. He’s got a newsletter called Creative Facilitation. And this is a quote from his newsletter: “As facilitators, it’s easy to think that meetings are about the agenda, the things that need to be resolved, the hard data and the desired outcomes. But perhaps the first thing we need to do is to meet ourselves, to pay attention to our own senses and experiences, and to ground our work in that kind of presence.”

So Johnnie is really encouraging us to go and look at ourselves as a human facilitator and that is definitely part of the preparation work that we have to do to be able to work effectively with the group when we are together with them. So work on ourselves. That is advice for me as much as for you. And recognize, as I’ve said before, in this episode that we need to tell ourselves the “right story”, the story that’s going to help us and not hinder us. So remember that we do have experience, we do have knowledge, even if it’s that beginner’s mindset that I talked about earlier. And we need to ground ourselves in the past successes that we’ve had, and use them to propel ourselves forward.

Now, these four things that I was talking about, up until this point, around self-doubt were actually kind of things that have to do with us as a person or as a human being. Now next, I want to delve into three causes of self-doubt, that I think can come about because of directly working with a group.

The first of those is when we receive negative feedback. So if you’re working with groups, I really hope you’re asking for feedback and doing evaluations for your workshops or courses. But this actually can be a cause of self-doubt. But receiving and reading those feedback forms can cause us self-doubt if we let it. It’s so paradoxical. I mean, I want to have feedback that helps me grow and stretch, you know, the “negative” or constructive feedback, because I know it helps me grow. But at the same time, I do want to be perfect. [laughs] And so it is hard to receive that because we don’t want to receive it in some ways. So we do want to receive negative feedback and we don’t want to receive it at the same time. It’s kind of a wicked question, isn’t it? So recognize that is a thing, and keep asking for it. And then we just have to learn how to sit with the feedback that we’re getting. So I just have to keep telling myself that constructive feedback is good. It will help me get better. It will help me see through my privilege, for example. It will help me understand other people’s experiences, because again, we are not like each other. We are all unique individuals being thrown together and this experience, whatever it is. And how can I be perfect when leading an experience with any group? There is no way I can do that. And so the more I just tell myself that I will always invite and need to hear the constructive feedback so that I can grow and be better for future groups, it is easier for me to sit with that and to sit with the self-doubt that comes from that. So if you expect constructive feedback, and that’s what you get, then maybe that’s a little easier, because you knew it was coming.

But at the same time, I think we do tend to downplay the positive feedback that we get in those feedback forms. So really try to sit with all of those great comments that people are giving you. Take in that positive feedback and give yourself kudos for that. Because there’s always a lot of great stuff that you’re doing, I’m sure, in your sessions. And there’s that thing about, we focus on the negative feedback most of all, but just recognize that that is so common for us all to do, and keep taking in all of those positive things that people said. Because you probably are knocking it out of the park, and give yourself the recognition for doing that.

Another thing that can happen with groups is around challenging group dynamics. So this is kind of a second thing that can happen directly with groups that can make us doubt ourselves. I absolutely have had moments like this in my career. I can think back on several of them just recording this episode for you. I have wanted to run from the room [laughs] because something difficult happened with a group. You know, those times where I didn’t know how to respond in the moment, or something didn’t go how I thought it was gonna go, or someone comes to me on a break and tells me I should be doing something a different way. In those moments I have turned to myself and the expertise that I bring into the room to be able to help myself figure out what to do next and deviate from the plan and just recognize that that is a thing that has to happen to be able to serve the group better. I have also turned to the group itself, or that individual that comes up to me and tells me the challenging thing that is happening. I have asked people for help that are in the actual experience.

So I try not to beat myself up about not having all of the answers all of the time. Whether we’re facilitating process or facilitating learning, we can ask the group for help if something unexpected happens. And maybe if we pre-think about how we might do that before the experience even happens, we’ll have that kind of muscle memory to do it in the moment when it happens. Because there will be something in your career, probably many times over, that happens that you did not expect. And so asking for the group’s help because we’re better together with all of our brains there to figure something out that needs to happen that’s a really great thing. And it doesn’t have to be all on us to be able to choose the way forward.

Lastly, I’ll say that lack of engagement from the group can probably be a big cause of self-doubt as well. This is actually an issue that a lot of people come to me with as a consultant who works in this field. People often come to me to help them redesign experiences that are not going very well. They’re not really engaging people as much as they would have hoped. So this is really, really common that people struggle with how to engage participants. And it’s no wonder when a lot of people fall into this work and they don’t get trained in learning design. So they don’t really know exactly all of the tools that we have in our toolbox to be able to engage groups and to capture the attention and interest and the participation of the learners in the room. So it’s really common, and one of the biggest issues my clients face. If you’re feeling self-doubt about this, know that it is entirely solvable, because you can self-educate in design and facilitation of learning strategies and tips and tools and processes. But you can also engage people to help you. I mean there are those of us who do learning design or instructional design as a career and you can reach out to us. But you can also reach out to the people in your own organization who also do design and facilitation related work. Because there are people around you, whether they’re in your organization, or maybe in a community of practice that you’re involved in, or that you can reach out to, that can help you do those things a little bit more effectively, that is resulting in the lack of engagement that you might be experiencing with your group. So the more that you learn about how to create active and participatory experiences, the better you’re going to feel when you’re in the group working with them, because you’re going to see it working right in front of your eyes. As you learn more about how to do this, you’re going to experience success around it, and that success will drive you forward. Just know that all of our past failures – my past failures, your past failures – we need to use those to learn from them, to propel us towards future success.

You know, I actually wrote a book about design and facilitation of learning. And as I was writing it, there came a time when I was going to have to pick a title for the book. And I don’t really like to pick titles. Now Chat GPT is helping me with that. [laughs] But at the time, I didn’t have AI to help me pick a great title. And I really had to ask myself – I had written so much of the books draft already – I asked myself, what is the gist? What is the whole point I am trying to make with this book? And I realized over time, and through asking people to kind of help me with, with title possibilities and so on, I realized that the whole point that I was trying to make in the book, and that a lot of my work is around is that when we are intentional and purposeful in the design phase of a learning design, then engagement is going to be so much easier. So Design to Engage became the title of the book because when we give a lot of effort and intention and space to designing learning experiences to be engaging, then when we go to facilitate them they will be because we have spent that intentional time. So Design to Engage. I mean, that is the whole reason why I named my book that. And I hope that’s what those of you who have been reading it are finding from it to enhance your practice. Spending more time in the design stage helps us create a more engaging experience to facilitate with our learners. And when we are able to do that, I think it helps us deal with the self-doubt because we are experiencing more successes and we are seeing the impact on the learners, their behaviour, their knowledge change, and so on. That’s the whole reason why we’re doing our work. And the more skills we have and develop, the less doubt we’re going to feel because we can see that it’s working.

So self-doubt, how do we deal with it? There are so many ways depending on how it’s coming up for you. Keep turning to the communities of people that do what you do for support and ideas and strategies about how to deal with self-doubt. But most importantly, keep looking inside yourself to realize that you have experience, you have knowledge, and you need to keep sitting with that, and in it to be able to do the great work that you do. And if you don’t have it, I think you actually do know how to go and find it. So make a plan to go and deal with something that you’ve been struggling with, where you’re doubting your own abilities or your knowledge, or you’re telling yourself the incorrect story. Go make a plan right now to figure out how you’re going to help yourself over the hump of that. And drop me a note to tell me about your next success. I’d love to hear. Thanks for listening.

[Episode outro]
Beth
On the next episode of the podcast I interview Rebecca Sutherns. Rebecca has written a new book called ELASTIC: Stretch without Snapping or Snapping Back. ELASTIC is a metaphor. It’s also an acronym. It helps us think about strategies that we can use to build stretchiness, as Rebecca calls it, in ourselves and with others. Especially coming off the heels of the pandemic, if you’re feeling overstretched this might be useful for you to listen to. While Rebecca’s book is ostensibly written for leaders of all kinds we think about how some of the concepts that she wrote about apply to people who do facilitation work. So I think if you’re feeling either understretched or overstretched in your work right now, you might enjoy our conversation, and it might give you some renewed, invigorated ideas to be able to take care of yourself in your work. So join Rebecca Sutherns and I next time on the podcast. We’ll see you then.

[Show outro]
Beth
Thank you for listening to Facilitating on Purpose. If you were inspired by something in this episode, please share it with a friend or a colleague to help them expand their facilitation practice too. To find the show notes, give me feedback, or submit ideas for future episodes visit facilitatingonpurpose.com. Special thanks to Mary Chan at Organized Sound Productions for producing this episode. Happy facilitating!

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